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VVK Podcast With Craig Fahle
The Detroit based VVK PR+Creative team takes a deep dive into the important and interesting issues. Hosted by longtime radio and podcast host Craig Fahle, each episode will feature conversations with thought leaders from Detroit, the State of Michigan, and beyond.
VVK Podcast With Craig Fahle
Gilbert Family Foundation responds to Detroiters vision for their neighborhoods
Four directors from the Gilbert Family Foundation reveal how half a billion dollars is revitalizing Detroit through interconnected investments in parks, arts, small business, and housing. JJ Velez explains how community-designed public spaces become neighborhood anchors. Akua Hill shares how cultural initiatives preserve Detroit's authentic identity while creating economic opportunities. Linda Nozegbe discusses connecting residents with growing sectors and providing small business capital. Andrea Benson tackles housing stability through innovative, affordable solutions like factory-built homes.
Together, they demonstrate how comprehensive urban transformation works when community voices lead the way, addressing gentrification concerns while ensuring longtime residents benefit from improvements. A fascinating look inside one of Detroit's most significant neighborhood investment initiatives.
Greetings everyone and welcome to the VVK podcast. I'm your host, craig Folley, on this program. We love to discuss interesting things about and in our community, and oftentimes the people we work with are directly responsible for those interesting things, and today is no exception. The Gilbert Family Foundation was founded by Dan and Jennifer Gilbert in 2015. And then in 2021, along with the Rocket Community Fund, made a joint 10-year $500 million commitment to build opportunity in Detroit neighborhoods neighborhoods. That commitment has significantly helped in a number of areas, including expanded parks and green space, investments in the arts, affordable housing programs and efforts to increase economic mobility for detroit residents.
Craig Fahle:On today's program, we'll speak to the directors of the various programs to find out more about how these investments will move our city forward. Stay tuned for conversations with JJ Velez, Linda Nozegbe, akua hill and Andrea Benson. There's a lot going on in today's VVK podcast, so please stay with us. Stay tuned for conversations with JJ Velez, linda Nozegbe, akua Hill and Andrea Benson. There's a lot going on in today's VVK podcast, so please stay with us. My first guest is JJ Velez, director of Public Spaces. It's a pleasure to have you here, sir, and it's nice to see you again. Yes.
JJ Velez:Hey, good morning Craig. Thank you for having me Absolutely and first of all, director of Public Spaces.
Craig Fahle:It's a pleasure to have you here, sir, and it's nice to see you again. Yeah, say good morning, Craig. Thank you for having me Absolutely, and first of all, Director of Public Spaces a cool title. Tell me a little bit about your department and the work that you're doing right now.
JJ Velez:Yeah, so the team that I lead for the Gilbert Family Foundation focuses primarily on development and redevelopment of public spaces within the city of Detroit. We also focus on program and placemaking within those public spaces, as well as the idea of complete streets. How are people accessing the public spaces, as well as the programs, in an equitable way? One portion of the work that we are starting to do right now is really focusing on the sustainability of the work that we are doing within the public space world, making sure that not only it's sustainable for climate, but also for long-term, for the community and the residents within the city of Detroit.
Craig Fahle:Well, talk about the importance of public spaces and the creation of public spaces in a city like Detroit. I mean, there are a number of problems and issues that the city of Detroit is dealing with. Why is this as important as some of the other things that we're trying to deal with?
JJ Velez:Yeah, great question. I think, you know, we, the city of Detroit, you know, largest city coming out of bankruptcy and one of the things that we've learned is that, through that whole process, and even through the pandemic, public spaces really has brought individuals together. During the pandemic, for example, where individuals were stuck inside, the only place that you could go outside was these public spaces for all purposes of health, public spaces and for all purposes of health. And so, you know, looking at green spaces and public spaces really allows us to, you know, reimagine what these spaces are for individuals. I think for a very long time in the city of Detroit, residents have just been given things that they may not necessarily want or have, and when we look at utilizing these spaces and bringing in community members to redesign these spaces in particular, allows them to have some buy-in.
Craig Fahle:Well, that buy-in is important and you mentioned engagement efforts. To talk a little bit about how you sort of approach that process and when you're looking at engagement and you're trying to get people involved in this, what are you asking of people?
JJ Velez:So for us, you know, we don't do the engagement. In particular, we work with City of Detroit's you know general service department. They've done an unbelievable job in the last decade with community involvement. And then we look at other organizations, other nonprofits that we're looking at to support, who have the thumb on the community and the residents and lean on them to do the community engagement but ultimately, you know, just trying to hear what individuals and residents really want and see in their communities, rather than us saying, hey, this is what we think you want.
Craig Fahle:You know you and I have seen each other at a number of these. You know ribbon cuttings for renovated park spaces and things along those lines, but you can see the physical changes to some of these public spaces, but are there things that we can't see in terms of the impact that these spaces are having on the neighborhoods?
JJ Velez:Yeah, you know that's also a great question. You know, a lot of people see the end product. They don't see how the sausage is made, in particular, and it's a lot of steps from start to finish. Specifically on public spaces, they take up to a year and a half, two years from start to finish, and that includes all the public engagement, all the community workshops, as well as putting out RFPs for finding architects and organizations or construction.
Craig Fahle:Know, when creating these, we have to keep in mind that we have to have flexibility because you know they may change, narratives may change, so Well, you know, anytime you bring in new investment to a neighborhood, though, I mean, and especially in a city like Detroit, which had seen disinvestment for so long there's a certain level of suspicion that comes along with that. There are people that worry that by making a park nicer, by adding a new apartment building or some new condos, that in effect, you're basically encouraging gentrification. How does that play into your planning in terms of that and preventing that from actually happening?
JJ Velez:So you know, I think the way we look at this work is we can't ignore the noise, right? You know there has been a very long time where you know a lot of these amenities for Detroit residents didn't exist, and so you know part of that is it doesn't change the work that we do or how we go about doing it. I think that by creating these public spaces allows values of homes to go up once they're completed and if individuals have lived there and they decide that, hey, listen, you know I've seen my value of my property go up, I want to sell, that's on them. But ultimately it doesn't change the work that we go to do because for the most part, a lot of the residents in that community really want to see, want these investments, um, and they will stay. You know there's just a small percentage or small portion of those residents that decide to either sell, leave or even new residents come in.
Craig Fahle:I, you know, I sort of want to talk about the reaction that you get from the public when you do some of these ribbon cuttings and what you hear from people you know. So you've got. You mentioned Complete Streets. You know bike lanes are always a subject we can talk about a little bit. They're very sort of polarizing. But what's the reaction you typically get when you finish one of these projects from the neighbors?
JJ Velez:Yeah, so let's go back to the Complete Streets. So Complete Streets for us isn't just bike lanes.
JJ Velez:It's also signage right, wayfinding signage, things of that nature. That is specifically work that my team does is so rewarding. One of the best parts of when we get to a completion of a project and prior to ribbon cutting is going into the parking, just seeing there and seeing the families, the generations of playing and the interactions of individuals To know that I have helped, we have helped to, to create and cultivate this space. And people have no clue, right, and I just it's not like I tell them, I just sit there and just have simple conversations, um, but for the most part, individuals are so grateful, um, for the investment in their community and that actually people have started to listen.
Craig Fahle:I should remind folks, my guest right now is JJ Velez, director of public spaces for the Gilbert Family Foundation. You just mentioned something investment, right? Yes, one of the concerns that residents have is that, okay, this is done now, but do we? You know what happens when the philanthropic support for these efforts ends? Who's going to maintain these parks? Is the city going to be able to do the work, or is it going to be similar to what happened before, where we saw the neglect and the people not maintaining parks for decades?
JJ Velez:Yeah, you know, I definitely hear those sentiments. I will say that, working hand-to-hand with General Service Department in the city, prior to my role here at the Goodwill Family Foundation, I was director of Parks and Recreation for the city of Detroit, so I know the ins and outs of how local municipality and the organization works. But it's really what the Recreation Department and GSD has done in the last several years, with creating a 10-year strategic master plan on the development of public spaces in the city of Detroit, really showcases what it means to identify the parks and how the city is still coming to the table to support and cleaning and making sure that these parks are kept up to standards right, and so for us it's making sure that we are lockstep with the city in doing so. But yes, you know, it's always at times can be a tricky situation to navigate.
Craig Fahle:Well, talk about that for just a second, because who's sort of driving the decision making on where to invest, which projects to take on? Is that you or is that the city?
JJ Velez:That's the city. Honestly, the city is the largest owner of land here in Detroit and so, other than that, you know they've created this 10-year master plan that has taken several years to create and it just identifies, in a phase approach, where the most need is and the neglect over the last several decades and how they are going to approach, using both general fund dollars that they have to renovate, philanthropic dollars and looking at opportunities through local, state and federals to support the renovations of these parks.
Craig Fahle:Well, jj Velez, we appreciate your time. Thanks for the work that you're doing. The city is benefiting from it and we appreciate your time. Well, thank you so much for having me. Welcome back to the VVK Podcast. I'm your host, craig Folley, glad to have you with us on this wonderful day. Well, hopefully it's wonderful. It's a podcast, so who knows? It could be three weeks from now. I'm not even sure, but that doesn't matter. We are continuing our visit with the Gilbert Family Foundation today. We've been talking about a number of different ways that they'd like to utilize their philanthropic dollars, and we're going to talk a little bit about arts and culture. Right now. My guest is Akua Hill, who is the Director of Arts and Culture for the Gilbert Family Foundation. Welcome to the podcast. It's a pleasure to have you here.
Akua Hill:Thanks, craig, appreciate you having me.
Craig Fahle:Well, first of all, arts and culture. It's a very wide subject.
Akua Hill:Talk a little bit about your department and the work specifically that you're doing there. I agree, first of all, I think a lot of people, when we hear arts and culture, it's kind of like what does that mean? Often we're thinking about museums and arts on the wall, and it's so much more than that. And then when you tie in culture, that really expands into a whole other universe. That is sometimes not visible and tangible, but it's so important and informs the way that we connect as human beings, the way that we build community with one another.
Akua Hill:And so when we talk about arts and culture here at the foundation, what we're really talking about is the fabric that makes people, that allows people to make meaning of life. There is expression, creative expression. That is often what we think about, whether it's visual arts, whether it's performance right going to the opera or seeing a dance performance. And then when we talk about culture Detroit has such a rich culture we're talking about things that are really kind of like the vibe. You know, when people talk about vibe it's not necessarily something that you can put your finger on, but people know what it feels like when they come to Detroit and that's why they come.
Craig Fahle:That's interesting that you put it that way, because putting a value on something like that is a difficult thing to do. The public doesn't often recognize how these things may impact them and that makes a lot of discussions around arts and culture difficult conversations to have.
Akua Hill:Absolutely what can you tell people about the value of these things, that makes them sort of more accepting of some of the investments that you might be making. It's such a good question and it's a question that we are often having at both the local, state, national and global level. Why is it important for us to incorporate arts and culture strategies, even when we're thinking about planning for spaces, right? The reason why is because, if you think about a city that had no creative energy running through its veins, it would be pretty boring. People wouldn't want to live there, people wouldn't be doing things after work, you know, and sometimes we don't understand how much of a value it has until something like that is not existent.
Akua Hill:But how often, you know, when you're going for your walk or you're in the gym, you're putting on music, right, that is giving you a fuel when you're having experiences with your family and loved ones. Often it includes some form of artistic expression and even just the design of the spaces that we're in. People are not thinking about the fact that someone designed that with creative intention. Right, no-transcript, connect with identity and heritage and feel like their story is told and represented in the space that they, you know, that they live in and those reflections of creative expression and culture are really important and when we talk about valuing them, it's really important that when we're thinking strategically about what it means to build a city a thriving city that is made up of thriving communities that arts and culture is a part of that conversation.
Craig Fahle:One of the other things that seems to work its way into this conversation, though, is the idea of authenticity. When you're talking about identifying the culture of a community, maybe investing in a mural project or funding some musicians or any other sort of ways that you're doing this, how do you sort of gauge whether or not that's genuine Detroit and something that's going to be appreciated and valued here?
Akua Hill:Well, one thing I'm sure you know is, detroiters can sniff out a fake very quickly, right? So authenticity is super important. And I love that question because, to me, what it makes me think of immediately is our focus on neighborhood-based arts and culture activations. What that means is we can't do a cut and paste, right? Every neighborhood has its own personality, its own energy about it, residents that have their own stories and histories, and those stories are important to be told. So when we talk about supporting arts and culture right, it's not this blanketed statement. We are particularly here at GFF we're focused on supporting neighborhood-based artists and arts organizations that are telling those unique stories at that ground level. And the reason why that is important is because we all know what it feels like when somebody is telling your story for you and it's not authentic or it doesn't hit correctly, and so, for that reason, it's really important that we support and lift up and amplify artists and arts organizations that are telling that special and unique story of their neighborhoods.
Craig Fahle:Do you feel, though, sometimes that you're sort of swimming upstream, because it seems that what you're talking about, in creating authenticity and making sure that every neighborhood has its own sort of identity, is the exact opposite of what we're seeing across the country, where you go to every town and they've got the same restaurant, the same place, the same sort of vibe oh, when are we going to get a Cheesecake Factory? You know, that kind of stuff seems to dominate a lot of that conversation, making it more difficult, and the economic might is oftentimes behind those larger sorts of movements out there that people seem to like.
Akua Hill:Yeah, I think in a world where we're seeing a lot more mergers and kind of just this, things being put together, to create Homogeneity.
Akua Hill:Yes, I think it actually drives home the very reason why we need more of those smaller, unique voices. Folks, look at some of the bigger. Something gets right. Let's say you have one company merges with another, merges with another, merges with another and no judgment. Right, that's your business trajectory, great. But we also know that there's something that feels different when you are looking at the visuals right, the ways that certain things that you're interacting with are represented and you see yourself in it. There's a deeper connection there. There is a pride that you kind of like. That gets activated in you when you're participating and engaging with something that's been designed with you in mind.
Craig Fahle:Well, let's, you know, let's sort of focus this a little bit more here, and you look at a city like Austin, Texas, which had that motto keep Austin weird for a long, long time, and I just wonder how we're doing at keeping Detroit, detroit.
Akua Hill:You know that's a great question. I think it depends on who you ask. I think we're doing a great job. I think because I have the privilege of being very connected and rooted within our arts and culture ecosystem. I'm often just in awe by how many creatives and how our creative labor just shapes the fabric of this city over and over again. You know we have lots of artists in the city that are struggling to, you know, make a livelihood, but it's so important to them that they are continuing to tell these stories, continuing to challenge us, to see the world in new ways, right, which is what creativity really allows for. And I can't imagine a Detroit where that autonomy and that power is ever taken away from the folks that call this place home.
Craig Fahle:Well, you know, there are always going to be artists out there who are not maybe getting grants to do certain things. They don't feel like they're seen or necessarily heard or supported. How do you sort of navigate that space, Because that is a constant criticism? I mean, you know there's going to be a number of people out there who feel that their work should be appreciated more.
Akua Hill:Yeah, you know, here at the foundation we're constantly asking ourselves what is the role of philanthropy, right, in a ecosystem like that, like what you just described, and it is our job to figure out when we look at those inequities right, and so we know that there are some of the kind of larger anchor institutions that have been around for a long time and are maybe resourced, you know, at a rate that allows them to continue right, and then we have the artists, like you said, that maybe don't feel as seen, don't feel as resourced. It's our job to say, when we look at the entire ecosystem, where are those gaps in support? How are we centering right in a majority Black city? How are we making sure that small arts organizations that are led by Black people, that artists that represent the city, that call this place home and maybe even generations before have called this place home? How are we making sure that they are also getting the support Because they are just as important a part of the ecosystem as our larger anchor institutions?
Craig Fahle:I should remind folks, my guest right now is Akua Hill, Director of Arts and Culture for the Gilbert Family Foundation. You know we talked about the importance of art and culture at the beginning of this conversation. I want to sort of get back to that, because it often seems that as we're having discussions about budgets, politics, whatever, one of the first things that gets put on the chopping block is the arts. And because people don't necessarily always see that value or they think it's maybe supporting some liberal person who knows what it is. But what would you like to say to government officials who are looking at budgets and looking for places to cut budgets, about where they should go?
Akua Hill:Yeah, and we're literally seeing that right now. I think even growing up, I remember hearing folks talk about the arts being cut from education. Right, that was always the first budget line to get us out of here, right, and more. You know, we've had more and more research over the years that showed just how important arts education is for the development of young people. So that's just one piece, right.
Akua Hill:However, I think that when we think about arts and culture not just as a luxury, not just as a nice to have, which it is right, we enjoy going to a show, we enjoy being able to put on some good music in our ear pods, but it can be so much more than that. So it's about how we're using it to drive things like community development, which, here at the foundation, that is our angle. That is how we are constantly looking at arts and culture as a driver of equitable community development, as a driver of economic growth for our city, and as a driver of economic growth for our city and as a driver of, basically, how we continue to shape and define the identity of our city, even as it evolves. That's why the artist's voice is so critical, because they have the ability to look at what's happening around us and represent it through creative expression.
Craig Fahle:Well, I have one last question for you, because I think this is an important part of this whole process. Is that? You know, we are a metrics driven society, right? People want to be able to measure results and impact, and with something like art and culture, it's a much more difficult thing to do. But how do you go about measuring your success?
Akua Hill:Yeah, I have two answers to that question.
Akua Hill:So often, right, when we're talking about metrics, we're looking at numbers, and there's been a lot of really interesting research lately and research that we are starting to lean into as well, around how arts and culture is directly related to economic growth.
Akua Hill:How do creative economies play a role in cities? Right, that's something that we're really interested in exploring more and kind of gets to your question around metrics, and I think that, especially in the arts and culture world, right, there's an opportunity to say that quantitative data is not the only measurement of impact. Right, a lot of times, when we're talking to a grandma who took her child to see the ballet for the first time, right, it's not that there was a number that you could put on the value of that experience, right, but the young and this is a true story One of the families that's part of our Culture Pass program that was launched last year she told her grandma she was like I will never forget this day, like this was so great, you know. And so everything doesn't need to be measured by a hard number. It is also about human connection, human experience, memories that we're creating, and, honestly, arts and culture really ties together those experiences for lots of folks.
Craig Fahle:Well, we certainly appreciate talking to you. Akua Hill, Director of Arts and Culture for the Gilbert Family Foundation. Thank you so much for your time Fascinating conversation.
Akua Hill:Thank you, craig, appreciate it.
Craig Fahle:Welcome back to the VVK podcast. I'm Craig Folley. Thanks very much for being with us today as we continue our discussion with the Gilbert Family Foundation. Of course I mentioned at the beginning of this program, they are involved in all sorts of different problem-solving areas here in our community, and today we're going to talk about the issue of economic mobility. My guest right now is Linda
Linda Nosegbe:Nozegbe
Craig Fahle:, director of Economic Mobility for the Gilbert Family Foundation. Linda, welcome to the program, it's a pleasure.
Linda Nosegbe:Thanks for having me.
Craig Fahle:Absolutely. And let's start out with something simple, because this is a term that gets bandied about a lot economic mobility. It's kind of a buzzword, but what do we mean when we're talking about economic mobility?
Linda Nosegbe:So when we're talking about economic mobility in the city of Detroit, what it really means is the Gilbert Family Foundation wants to provide access to capital for small business owners, as well as the whole wraparound services for families. So, whether it's workforce development, access to education or technology, that is really what the embodiment of the work is all about.
Craig Fahle:And I mean traditionally. There are, I'm assuming, a lot of barriers to this. Which ones are you trying to tackle?
Linda Nosegbe:So, while we're not trying to boil the whole ocean, what we're really trying to address is access to capital for small business owners. How do they gain access? What are the partners we need to identify in the ecosystem to help those small business owners? When you talk about education and emerging industries, we've identified the top five industries that are coming into Detroit, and so we're just trying to address those ones.
Craig Fahle:When you're talking about technology, healthcare, it services, professional services, as well as advanced manufacturing and skilled trade, you know you were mentioning small businesses as well, so why don't we talk a bit about that here? I mean, because it's one thing to just give somebody some money to help them start their small business, but that probably doesn't necessarily solve the problem.
Linda Nosegbe:No, it does not solve the problem. I've had an opportunity of speaking to a lot of small business owners in the ecosystem and we have different layers right. So you have those who are starting up, who really do need the money for that. Then you have those who are looking to scale, who actually need to be able to have access to capital, but not just as free money but actually like a line of credit to drive. Then we have technical assistance providers in the ecosystem that helps them drive that that. So Weta is teaching them about understanding their balance sheets, making sure that they are ready to market their business utilizing social media. So we have partners who actually offer those services as well not just the access to capital, but everything that comes with being a business owner. And so, as they scale up, we work with different partners to help identify it as funding places for them to open up their shop and to work that way.
Craig Fahle:What needs to be done to make that a more seamless process?
Linda Nosegbe:So for us at the Gilbert Family Foundation, what we have done is identified partners in the ecosystem that are aware of opportunities that are coming into the city of Detroit. Then what we do is we partner with other entities who can help train individuals to be prepared for those jobs. So, yes, while you are right, while we cannot guarantee that that translation of training gets into jobs, but at least you're aware of what is coming in, we have the right partners in place. So I feel like we have the right partners in place to help educate individuals to be ready for this type of job opportunities that are coming in. So, whether it's skilled trade, manufacturing, it, healthcare, we're making those investments and ensuring that Detroiters have the know-how and the knowledge to be ready for those opportunities.
Craig Fahle:You know there has been a lot of discussion in recent weeks because of politics and everything else that's going on about, you know, reshoring certain jobs to the United States and bringing back manufacturing. You know, is thating certain jobs to the United States and bringing back manufacturing, you know, is that realistic? I mean because you mentioned the five sectors that you are sort of focused on right now as the ones that are actually locating in Detroit. Should you continue preparing for that, or is it important to prepare for something that may or may not happen in the future?
Linda Nosegbe:So, while there are things that are happening in the political realm, our focus really truly is how do we enable and embody Detroiters to be ready for what is currently here? We've identified what is readily available. We're making sure that we're investing in those areas of expertise and what is needed. Manufacturing is not what it used to be, however. It has advanced, and so we want to make sure that we have that kind of training in place so individuals are ready for what is now and not in the past.
Craig Fahle:What is the ecosystem like in terms of finding partners for this kind of work? Are there enough people out there that are equipped to handle this thing that you, you know, or are we not in a good place?
Linda Nosegbe:Oh no, we actually Detroit when they say Detroit is resilient. We have the right people, we have the right training, we have the right partners. We have I think we have everything that we need to make it work, and it's just making sure that the individuals or the residents are aware of what is actually available to them. And that's what we try to do here is making sure that the partners that we work with are grassroots partners who have access to people that can tell them about these opportunities that are available to them.
Craig Fahle:You know, one of the sort of criticisms of a lot of job training initiatives and educational initiatives for people in cities like Detroit is that there's too much of a focus on emerging technology, high tech jobs, things like that, and that we're sort of foregoing more traditional blue-collar employment opportunities, you know, skilled trades. And what is the balance there? Is there a good balance or do we need to be thinking future, as opposed to what, you know, Michigan and Detroit may have been in the past?
Linda Nosegbe:So for what I've seen in the landscape, we are very. Detroit has changed vastly from what it was the last 10, 15 years. We are no longer the we're still the motor city. However, we are advancing in technology. So we have an investment called Venture 313 that focuses on tech. This is for tech startups who are looking to scale as well. So you have that landscape that is growing, that is actually turned into something else, where people are actually looking at Detroit as the next Silicon Valley. So there are a lot of things within the ecosystem that are happening. So it's not just manufacturing anymore. You have health care that is exploring it is actually the number one employer in the city of Detroit followed by IT. Then you have technology with other startups and things of that nature, and then let's not forget the small business owners as well. That is exploring in its own entity as well, and we have partners in the right place that are providing those opportunities for people to scale up in those sectors.
Craig Fahle:Well, I mean, these are efforts that require enormous investments, right, and a lot of follow through to make sure that people are progressing on the path that you want them to and you're getting them to where they need to be. Talk a little bit about how you're measuring the impact. How do you know if this is successful and what does it look like in terms of you know when you might not be needed for this sort of stuff any longer?
Linda Nosegbe:So I think, as long as mankind is on this earth, we're always going to be needed Sure.
Craig Fahle:Because we're still producing.
Linda Nosegbe:There are kids that are coming up. So that is the reason why our pillars is really truly addressing that whole wraparound service for economic mobility. So when we talk about education, you do have to address that, so that individuals know what is awaiting them when they go into the workforce space. If you decide that you want to be an entrepreneur, what is available for you in that space? If you decide you want to be the next Steve Jobs or Elon Musk, what do we have? We have all of those resources here, and so, for us, success will be when we're able to make sure that more than 80% of Detroiters are in that middle class level where our poverty level has actually reduced and we actually have more people that are coming back into the city of Detroit wanting to live here because of the opportunities that we have here for them. That is how I measure success.
Craig Fahle:Well, you know you talk about the middle class. Well, you know you talk about the middle class. It's an interesting discussion to have, because I think one of the sort of measuring sticks for whether or not somebody is middle class is whether or not you're able to pass something on to the next generation.
Linda Nosegbe:It may not be anything big, but generational wealth is a key component that has been missing for a lot of Detroiters for a long time. Is that a measuring stick for you? And I think we address that through financial literacy. Right, because I could be making $60,000 a year and be more wealthier than someone who's making $200,000 a year just because I understand how to plan and how to manage my money If we have those resources that are addressing it and we don't want to wait until someone is 18 or 21 to teach them that. That is just one way to start with education. You start it in schools and that just translates out to generational wealth. So that's what I mean by we have a long work ahead of us, but as long as we do it in the right path and the pillars that we have, I do see some changes, maybe like one or two generations down, where we're actually able to say yes, we were part of that success.
Craig Fahle:All right. Well, Linda, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
Linda Nosegbe:Thank you for having me have a great one.
Craig Fahle:Linda Nozegbe, director of Economic Mobility for the Gilbert Family Foundation, joining us here on the VVK Podcast. Welcome back, everybody, to the VVK Podcast. Pleasure to have you with us. I hope you're enjoying the program. So far Today we have spent a lot of time talking with experts from the Gilbert Family Foundation about the various things that they are working on and, if you remember, in the intro, one of the things I talked about was housing and the importance of housing stability in a city like Detroit. My guest today, Andrea Benson, director of Housing Stability for the Gilbert Family Foundation. Welcome to the program.
Andrea Benson:Thank you for having me.
Craig Fahle:And I have to say this is incredibly important work Housing, housing affordability, availability of housing at all is top of mind all over the country. This is not just a unique Detroit problem. Talk a little bit about the way that you are sort of approaching this work and where you think you could actually have an impact. So talk a bit about first, about what you're doing and where you think your niche is here.
Andrea Benson:Sure. So here at the Gilbert Family Foundation, we are rooted in ensuring that Detroiters stay in their homes, so we work really hard to prevent displacement of existing homeowners in the community that are experiencing pressures around housing, as a lot of residents are that we know. In addition, we want to support or we do support our renters to also guarantee that they're not displaced as Detroit continues to grow. We really want to ensure that Detroiters stay in their homes.
Craig Fahle:Well, let's talk about some of the challenges that exist there. I mean, for a long time, one of the biggest issues in Detroit when it came to housing was on foreclosure. Tax foreclosure is one of those things that seems to be preventable. Yeah, this is not the same as mortgage foreclosure. This is tax foreclosure and that was a real big problem in Detroit. Yeah, go ahead.
Andrea Benson:And one of the things that the Gilbert Family Foundation did prior to me getting here, but it's still a legacy that we are continuing to carry is through the HOPE Network. So we support residents in applying for, essentially, tax relief. So it can come at 100%, depending on your income, but it can be as little, depending on your income, but it can be as little, which is a lot to a lot of people, as 15 to 25%, so you can get that exemption from your taxes and that we have seen has helped ensure that the traders stay in their homes.
Craig Fahle:One of the things that I've witnessed, though over my many years, is that there aren't a lot of people connecting people to those resources and that knowledge right. So is that where you think that you can sort of make that difference?
Andrea Benson:Sure, we know we have through our partners. So we have a strong network of partners that have come together that are really committed to ensuring that Detroiters have the information that they need across the ecosystem to really address the housing needs specific to them. So we have a network of HOPE partners that are there to answer questions and help residents fill out applications, and it stretches to our home repair program that we also have too.
Craig Fahle:You know, one of the big problems is obviously just the cost of housing. The pressures there are not going away. The creation of affordable housing is happening, but not at the scale that we need it anywhere. What can you do in terms of helping to preserve affordability across the housing spectrum here in Detroit?
Andrea Benson:So currently the foundation is working with city officials as well as our partner nonprofits to really understand what the challenges are when it comes to pricing and housing. We recently invested in factory-built housing in North Corktown to just explore what that product could do to bring down the cost of housing. So it's something that we are continuing to work on again with city officials, with state officials, with developers, to really figure out where we can reduce those costs, because it is such a challenge.
Craig Fahle:You mentioned, of course, the project in North Corktown, and I do want to talk a little bit about that, because one of the interesting things that you heard before these places were built was this notion of modular housing means cheap housing. Why does Detroit have to get cheap housing? That seems to be something that you guys tried really hard to sort of change the narrative on that a little bit, but what have you seen since those houses have been built? Have people's attitudes changed around that?
Andrea Benson:Most definitely so. One of the goals in investing in factory-built homes was to help remove the stigma around factory-built to the broader community as well as city officials that have to sign off on the design plans and the development of that work. We've seen since that investment city officials are really interested in exploring what factory-built can look like in other neighborhoods across the city. We have been in contact with multiple nonprofits, specifically in the community land trust space, that are also interested in using factory-built housing to develop in their neighborhoods. So we definitely think that we've contributed to removing that stigma. Now it's just figuring out how to get it in Detroit, bring the product to Detroit hopefully a manufacturer to Detroit as well, to continue to develop across the city.
Craig Fahle:You know I would spend a lot of time going down the continue to develop across the city. You know I would spend a lot of time going down the rabbit hole of community land trusts, but we're not going to because that's going to take a long time to describe and it's a debate that we could have like a whole show on. But I do want to talk about the role, though, that the Gilbert Family Foundation played in doing that. Does it take a philanthropic organization to make that initial investment to show people it's possible, because I mean the construction, especially in single family homes. It's really, really struggling in a city like Detroit.
Andrea Benson:I believe it takes not only the foundations but it takes everyone the city, the land bank and the community partners to all buy in and to agree to do the work. We have found that through that project right. It matters that everyone is on the same page and has the right resources, prop or the right motivation to get the job done and produce the product. So, yes, philanthropic support fills the gap. We're trying to figure out how to reduce that gap and it really takes everyone.
Craig Fahle:Well, you know, yeah, this isn't the kind of thing that can go on forever. I mean, we've been relying on philanthropic organizations to solve a lot of problems in Detroit really since the bankruptcy, if not before that. What can you do to sort of set up a situation where this becomes a little bit more self-sustaining?
Andrea Benson:So we always at the foundation look to scale projects to ensure that they can support themselves and become self-sustaining. We are constantly working again with the city and our partners to really explore what that looks like. How we can produce a product prep land, engage developers to make development more sustainable. We're still working towards that. We don't have the answers. It takes a group.
Craig Fahle:Well, one of the things that works against the notion of housing stability is gentrification, creating more expensive places to live, pricing people out of their neighborhoods. Talk about the balance of investing, like in, say, north Corktown. How do you do that in a way that is not going to move people out that are already there, and what steps do you take to make sure that you aren't displacing people? Because some have criticized the entire Gilbert Rock and Quicken organization for contributing to this problem in Detroit.
Andrea Benson:Well, again, our mission is really to ensure that residents aren't displaced. So we are very thoughtful in the way that we make investments. We look to communities that are seeing an increase in cost of living. We work with partner organizations on the ground to inform what those investments can look like and we really have just a standard best practice of what we look to our partners to uphold to ensure that residents aren't being displaced and, again, are being supported to get into the homes that are developed.
Craig Fahle:Well, my guest right now is Andrea Benson, director of housing stability for the Gilbert Family Foundation. We're talking about a lot of some of the hurdles that are out there for people that are trying to stay in their homes or find a place to live or have an affordable place to live. You mentioned some numbers and things like that, and we do like to have metrics to measure success. How do you know if what you're doing is having an impact?
Andrea Benson:So we do look to the numbers, but we also again look to the residents, look to our partners to best inform. So at the end of every grant cycle we have lessons learned, a particular program or even with funding to ensure that residents are being supported and, again, not being displaced from their homes.
Craig Fahle:Well, I have one more question for you. I mean because you know New York famously had a candidate who ran on the platform. The rent is too damn high. We talk about affordable housing in Detroit and there are a lot of people who don't like the use of the area median income to determine affordability. They say even at 80, 50 percent. That's still more than most Detroiters can afford. Are we even talking about the right thing when we talk about affordable and affordability when it comes to housing?
Andrea Benson:That's always been a topic of discussion, like what does affordable mean? The one thing that we do stand by and we are clear on is that no resident should really be spending more than 25, 30 percent of their income on housing. So, regardless of where someone stands in their income, that is one, at the end of the day should be spending more than 25 to 30 percent on their income, regardless of where they're at in the pay scale.
Craig Fahle:All right. Well, Andrea, we appreciate your time today. Andrea Benson, Director of Housing Stability for the Gilbert Family Foundation. Thank you so much for your time.
Andrea Benson:Thank you.
Craig Fahle:And that's going to do it for the VVK podcast today, and thanks again to our many guests, jj Velez, akua Hill, Andrea Benson and Linda Nozegbe. I could have done a half hour with each of them easily, but they are doing a lot of good work at the Gilbert Family Foundation. We appreciate you and don't forget, send us a note if you have some suggestions on topics or people we should be talking to. Send me an email, craig at VVK, or find us on LinkedIn, Facebook, instagram. You know we're everywhere. We'd love your feedback. Have a great day. We'll see you next time.
